As i have said in my blog, i want to comment on the issues that are concerning our beloved bolehland, Malaysia. First, i wanna talk about our first angkasawan/astronaut/cosmonaut/spaceflight participant, then the lingam video tape or lingam-gate scandal, the independent of the judiciary, the parliament and the general elections.
First, let us talk about the first Malaysian in space. Dr. Sheikh Muzzaphar Shukor, is our country's first man to go to space. He is also the first South-East Asian to go to space. Well, how proud are you, as a malaysian? The Russian called him a cosmonaut, the NASA called him a space flight participant and the Malaysian government insisted that he is indeed a angkasawan. Astronaut is the same meaning as Cosmonaut. Cosmonaut term is used by the Russians. The angkawan term is also the same with astronaut and cosmonaut.
Perhaps he will be conferred a Datuk-ship. This is Malaysia's style. There are many controversies surrounding the angkasawan project.
It all started in year 2003, when the Malaysian government agreed to buy 18 units of Sukhoi Su-30MKM. As part of the deal, the Russian government agreed to send a malaysian into the space in 2007. The cost is estimated to be US$900 million! Each unit cost about US$33-45million according to wikipedia. I think it is better to purchase F-16 fighting falcon as it is much cheaper than Su-30MKM. But US$900 million is too much. The money can be used for other projects, such as repairing the lousy roads across the country! There are many potholes in the country, and yet we spent millions to send a man into the space! What is this all for? The money can be used for other development projects as well! Look, the government spent more than the revenue generated for 11 consecutive years(budget deficit).
The exact figure for sending the man to space was never revealed. However, it is indeed very costly and they are planning to send 2nd man to space again.
Next, let's talk about the videotape scandal. This is not a pornographic videotape. This is not an anime's videotape. This is the arrangement in appointing judges. The Federal Constitution made it clear that it is only the DYMM YDP-Agong as the only one who can appoint judges(with the recommendations by the Chief Justice) and Chief Judge of Malaya, Sabah & Sarawak and Chief Justice of Malaysia acting on the advice of the PM and Conference of Rulers. Unfortunately, this is not the case. It is a prominet lawyer who recommend who to appoint as CJM(Chief Judge of Malaya). Well, i'm not a law student, so correct me if i am wrong in some facts. The video is quite funny. Watch at youtube for it! Do you know the Watergate Scandal that forced US. Pres. Nixon to resign from office? Let's see if this lingamgate scandal can force the CJ to resign.
After Anwar Ibrahim released the videotape, the government immediately form a 3-man Independent Panel to check the authenticity of the videotape. The Malaysian Bar Council organised a 'Walk from Justice' from the Palace of Justice to the PM's Department. There are thousands of lawyers and supporters took part in the march. They all wore black and white attire. The Bar Council demanded a formation of a Royal Commission of Inquiry, as it has more power to investigate the scandal. And it is true that the Independent Panel failed miserably to deliver. The Bar Council's Pres Ambiga Srenevesan infamous quote:
"Lawyers don't walk everyday. Not even every month. Not even every year. But when they walk, then something must be very wrong."
If our Parliament can act professionally like this and have this power, it is really great!
Next, let's talk about the fairness or Independent-ness of the Judiciary. I don't believe it they are 100% independent. Lina Joy's attempt to leave her former religion has failed in the highest court, the Federal Court. She was denied her freedom of religion, as guaranteed in the Federal Constitution, on Article 11. 'Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion.'
But lately, there are a number of lawsuits against the government are success. First, a former ISA's detainee was awarded RM2.5mil in the suit against the police and government. Then, the news just came in, Irene Fernandes was awarded Rm200k in her suit against an UMNO-owned daily. These judges who attend those cases are indeed independent and fair. One more lawsuit was filed 2 days ago. I believe there will be more and more suits will be filed in the future!
Next, let's talk about the General Elections. Many believe that it will be held after the General Assembly of UMNO. Oh yea, let's hope the delegates won't make any racist comments or statements during the assembly! Let's hope the keris will not be waved against other races.
Next year, i believe the fuel price will increase, at least by 10-20sen per litre. Toll rates will go up as well. Thus, the transportation costs will increase. Then, the price of goods will increase! This is called 'cost push inflation' in Economics. By then, perhaps a normal bowl of Kolo Mee will cost Rm3++!
The inflation rate is rising, and on April, Anwar will be eligible to contest. With the inflation, the people will get angry and the votes will swing to the opposition. So it does make sense that the GE will be called before the toll and fuel price hike. They will not be that stupid to repeat the mistake in the 2006 Sarawak State Election. It is like smacking your head with a hammer.
The question is, what is the date of GE and how many seats the opposition will grab! For sure, the landslide victory for BN in 2004 GE will not be repeated this time. The opposition should be able to win at least 45-50 seats. Perhaps the elections will be held later this year or early next year before they increase the fuel price and toll.
Signing off now...... Izzit ok to post socio-political stuffs in the UGS blog??
*kenny, our posts are equal now?
48 comments:
Sosio-politic is good! It add some spice into otherwise....normal BUGS.
1. Angkasawan Programme
-Datuk-ship means nothing. Its just worthless piece of name.
As for buying Su-30MKM, I personally think its very neat and powerful aircraft and comparable or even better than their American counterpart. And the Russians has the deal that self-boasting M'sian gov can't resist. *wink*
2. US congress versus Msian parliament(substory of Videotape scandal)
- I don't think its a good comparison because Msia and US have vastly different system and political scene. The current US senate is under Democrats and of course they will scrutinize Dubya(which is good). As for us, in which the scene is dominated by the senile and gargantuan BN, any oppositions will be silented.....
3. Umno annual congress and GE.
They realised the power of media, and they are cowering.....
1.'..Lina Joy was not denied the freedom of religion, just the freedom to change her name on her MyKad..'~quote from our Foreign Minister on BBC Hardtalk.(good one Syed Hamid Albar)
2.The angkasawan programme is yet another way to raise tax. We plan to send more people to space to do 'important experiments'.
politics on ugs?i like..=)
lizardboi,
1. what for having a powerful fighter jets when as a third world country when you don't need it for war? There are no threat against malaysia from any other country. Datuk-ship is useless. if you are a tycoon, you can have it. there are thousands of datuk in malaysia. what for?
2. the government MPs are not professional. they asked non-muslims to fuck off from the country if they don't like malaysia as a Islamic state. close one eye MP is useless. they all vote against opposition motion even they are good for the people and nation.
ghost,
1. I did watch the hardtalk on bbc. Sarah montague hit him very hard with questions regarding the NEP(Never Ending Policy). In a democratic country, every person have their own right. right for changing name or religion. this is democracy. freedom of speech, religion, and etc.
I love your post, Danny. Good one.
I am not against the angkasawan program, seeing as Malaysia did buy the Sukhoi fighters, and that it was all part of the allocated defense budget. That the Russians included it as part of the package reminded me of McDonald's Happy Meal - buy one get one free toy.
I do have an issue with the experiments done, however. Something as mundane as testing the effects of micro gravity and cosmic radiation on protein has most likely already been done by other scientists, countless times over. The International Space Station is after all a 7 year old laboratory, isn't it? Well, whatever. I roll my eyes whenever I hear of "Malaysia's great achievements!"
We should actually be more proud when a Malaysian won the Pulitzer Prize for journalism, such as had happened earlier this year. Or of Nicol David, the world's no 1 in squash. That is hard work, not some leeching off somebody else's efforts.
2, Now, about the comparisons between the Malaysian government and the US government:
I do not respect the US government.
If you read up more on their system of governance you'd realize that the US gov has an unusually high rate of corruption (for a developed country). Yes, their media does act as a watchdog, but the politicians have more control over the media than is expected: Fox, for instance, is a very Republican body.
I would rather we emulate the British parliamentary system. The opposition and goverment parties (Tory and Labour) have very good working relationships with each other. They may be on opposite sides of the fence, but they have no problems with occasionally working together to resolve issues within the country. Yes, it is politics, and they do want to trump each other. But the level of respect and cooperation is still something to be in awe of, seeing as what we have here in Malaysia.
They also have something called a 'shadow team'. A shadow team is a cabinet (Shadow Minister for trade, Shadow Minister for defense, etc etc) consisting of the party not in power, that acts as a control to the real cabinet. Like each minister is answerable to his/her actions by his shadow counterpart.
Compare this to Malaysia, where the opposition parties are immature and especially happy to do finger pointing. They do not provide a credible alternative to our government yet. If they win, and they form a cabinet, Malaysia is very likely to die because all they know how to do is to point fingers.
We cannot blame them: our current political arena is memang like that. But I also roll my eyes when they stage stupid things like protesting the price of their DUN uniform.
We don't really have much of choice in voting, when it comes to Malaysia.
Good one Ced. I never knew THATS the function of shadow cabinet. But then, i don't think shadow cabinet can exist in Msia because it goin to be quite useless in a sense that BN is so gargantuan that everything that they want can go through parliament without a hitch......
I think most of the Western European (esp Scandinavia)have political scene that is more mature and professional. It will be eons before we can reach that level and probably never.......
@Danny: Function of military these day are definitely more towards psychological...to SHOW that we can defend ourselves if ANYTHING happens......
Lizardboi_88:
Defend ourselves? In this day and age Sukhoi fighters won't do crap except run test flights and stuff esp in M'sia. Missiles do all the talking now. Defend against that.
Ced:
I guess politics boils down to the politicians involved. Leave it at that.
Danny:
Obviously we've all been deceived. Malaysia is not as free as it should be. Btw, I was amused at how Albar tackled the questions. Very amusing.
well done danny... very very very well said. too many ppl are afraid to blog about socio political stuff becos of the draconian ISA... but those who dare to voice it out... deserve respect.
having said that... we all blog about politics not becos we want to be in the limelight... we blog about it cos we care about what is happening around us... keep it up... dont stop.
by the way... the CJ wont be resigning... cos his tenure ends next tuesday. now, i am just waiting to see if the Agong extend his tenure.
BTW, will i be sued or detained for posting this things?? I'm afraid to post comments in political blogs such as RPK, screenshots, rocky and bla bla bla...
Zewt,
haha.... he won't resign.. that's true. his tenure will end soon. why this things always occur? last time, the ACA chief who was accused of corruption was not sacked but his contract expired.. always like that one...
lizardboi,
if u maintain good relations with other countries, there are no threat at all....
@ Ced
I don't really want to comment about this stuff usually.
However, I've one thing to clarify for you.
Wait, our oppositions do have shadow cabinet. Taking Swk DUN for example, the six DAP representatives are given their special areas to monitor. There are lists for them and I remember each of them take a few roles. (What do we expect right? 6 agaisnt 71?!)
When come to shadow ministers, you can't blame much and accused the Msian oppositions being immature. How do you expect the Oppositions in Msia to form shadow ministers when in fact they only makes up a minority compare to its counterparts compare to Parliament in more developed countries like US, UK or Australia.
In fact, taking Australia as example, the Labour party makes up almost 45% of the entire House of Representatives.
Msia?
Protesting the price of uniforms are deemed to be stupid?
Ced, perhaps you are still a student and not paying a single cent of tax yet. When you've come to working arena when you've to pay tax for every single cent you earn, you will understand how government spend money has a great effect on us.
Spending on the uniform might seem to be a small proportion of nation's income, but it does affect a lot when expenditure on others unnecessary things are not monitored.
Talking about the uniform, I can't quite remember how much it was... it was about RM6k if not mistaken. Of one set of uniform cost Rm6k which you only wear for once a year, 80 representatives will cost the govt Rm480,000.
Not a big amount huh? Half a million ringgits are spent on RM480,000.
Imagine if the money is used to buy rice to support poor familiees, approximately 24,000 packs of rice could be be purchased... supporting 20,000 poor families.
Sometimes, a single cent might seem little, but once accumulated... it cost a bomb.
When come to poliics, we don't talk about dozens in quantities, we talk MILLIONS!
Kenny, that was why I was saying we cannot blame the opposition for how they act: the way the government is set up today forces them to nitpick on minor issues.
The uniform is a minor issue. It doesn't affect the rakyat directly, and 6k a small price, when compared to the oodles of money being siphoned out through corruption and blackhat practices. You think British ministers will fight over uniform? Their press (a very hungry watchdog) will make fun of them and they won't get reelected. Instead they call the government out on overarching economic policies, and lambast them on the way they handle international crises.
Our shadow team is unsubstantial. The British parliament's shadow team can take over without blinking an eye, in the space of 5 working days.
We'd probably go to hell first if DAP's shadow team took over. The ministers, so used to blaming the government for this and that, will be at a lost at what to do.
Again we cannot blame them. Our political ethos is not mature enough, quite yet, and so they will continue to nitpick on minor issues.
PS: as an illustration, what a strong, mature oppostition party in a mature political arena (with a strong Fourth Estate - the press) will do (instead of picking on uniforms that will feed 20,000 poor families) will be to come up with an alternative to the NEP, and collaborate with the party in power.
If the party in power tries to do something funny, the press rears its head and roars, and their approval ratings drop.
They are then forced to comply to the people's wishes.
Of course, that happens in Britain. Here? The ISA will be invoked, our press has all the ferocity of a poodle and the rakyat won't even be interested in what is going on.
Sad, sad, place, Malaysia.
Cedric, yes, the uniform is a minor issue. Rm6000 is a small price compared to millions/billions eaten by those sharks.
I want to clarify that, in British Parliament, there's no uniform. they only wear formal attire.
There is nothing wrong to protest the price of the uniform. Why must they wear/buy/make this uniform, whereas the State Legislative Assembly only convenes 50-60 days per year?? So it is useless to wear this attire. Wear formal is enough..
How do you know the opposition will not do a great job if they takeover the government?? They never form a goverment before(except PAS), so how can you come up with a conclusion they are not good enough?
Yes, by blaming the government for whatever are wrong is the opposition's job/role.
Why not blame the government when tenders are given only to cronies?
Why not blame the government for the demolishment of temples?
Why not blame the government when the police brutally assault the people when they hold demo?
Why not blame the government when they increase the fuel price, as oil producing country through petronas, the government earned billions each year!
Why not blame the government when they spent hundreds for Rm32 packet of screwdrivers??
Why not blame the government when the economy is growing slowly?
Danny said:"Yes, by blaming the government for whatever are wrong is the opposition's job/role."
Danny, I once thought that as well. Then I did a little research and realized that ... in a proper democracy that is the media's job.
It goes to show how mature our political arena is, if the opposition thinks and argues that it is the government's watchdog.
The opposition is a political unit. It's function is to bring the people's voices into the limelight, and to fight for policies and laws its voters want. A (general) example: the Republicans, for instance, represent voters with more conservative views - like those Christians in the Bible belt (against abortion, stem cell research, gun control ... etc etc). The Democrats represent those more liberally minded - those who are more open to these newfangled policies. They argue and fight for policies that are in line with the party views.
They are do act as a control to the Government ... but they don't sit around and blame. The opposition plays a more proactive role, and it's really laughable when our opposition stands up and says its role is to critique the government.
It's sad, really. A proper democracy can't really work without total freedom of speech. But that's the tradeoff we have here, for 'political stability'. I wish we can find some other method of control, other than the media, but so far all we have ... is the opposition.
That is the media's job? You tell me what media in malaysia can criticise the government except the bloggers, RPK and malaysiakini? All the mainstream media are owned by UMNO, MCA, and few tycoons who are closely linked to gov.
The opposition's role are more than that. Besides criticising the government, they have to provide check and balance, upheld democracy, social contract, human rights and so on....
Ced, you probably has a very marginal knowledge about what's going on in politics... of course, with our coalition-dominated-newspapers, you probably don't know what's going on.
Mind you, most of the medias here are controlled by the coalition leaders. Taking our major chinese newspaper in swk, do you know it's own by who? And what is the position of that person?
Obviously, what do you expect the opposition, let's say in Swk DUN to argue on the policies when the sitting is only held twice a year.. and of course, one of the sitting will be for the budget itself.
I'm just taking Swk to elaborate.
The opposition plays a mainstream in overlooking the govt's expenditure. If you study economics, you will know how important a govt's fiscal policy (its budget) has an impact on the economy and the development of the nation. Spending millions of dollars (accumulating from various expenditures; uniforms etc) is 'unproductive'. This is not a good capital investment that may lead to development.
Capital investment is when government spend money on building better infracstructures, providing more schools and education to the people. Only then, this will smoothen the economy. If you want me to elaborate further, seek me personally. I'm good in economics!
Money could have been used wisely and for better purpose that lead to economic growth, however otherwise... if expenditure on other non-essential goods may lead to wastage. I can quote this from economics book about "Good Governance".
Policies comes with budget. NEP or wadeva polices are all budgets. If you study law, you will know that a crucial part of Parliament sittings is about Public Bills (initiated by ministers, also large part regarding to budget).
And yes, oppositions do argue on the policies. If you may read further, opposition actually questions the policies and of course the NEP (Never Ending Policy).
Govt policies on Chinese Education, housing, land and many things are questioned.
You can't solely blame on the oppositions and saying that they aren't doing what they are supposed to by comparing with British parliament by not knowing what our oppositions are doing. The newspaper never publish out and you can never blame them for not doing it.
Again, what "Elected Representatives" mean is to bring the people's voice into the parliament, to care about their own constituencies concerned matters. Looking at the beckbenchers, do you think they have done their job well?
It's obsolute for you to bring in the oppositions from developed countries like britain or Aus, saying that our oppositions will definitely bring the nation to darkness once the reform takes place.
You have to study history my dear friends. The oppositions from those countries have long gain a large proportion of the parliaments. They have enough manpower and assets. Compare to our country, who merely dominated by the coalition party.
Blame their maturity level, not many of their parties collude unlike ours. Which later make the powerful coalition become more powerful.
It's rather irrelevant if you say the oppositions never work hand in hand with the government for the betterment of the society.
Our oppositions DO work with the government towards greater nation. We have special committees comprising both sides, oppositions often submit suggestions, motions and in many other areas. In fact, the Kit Siang once said, "We are not oppositions that object every govt's policy. We object if we disagree with it, we support if we agree with it."
In fact, it's the coaltion who never work hand in hand with the oppositions. Taking the last year sitting for example, a beckbencher was backfired for supporting the opposition stance.
Many things, even small things.. may look minor, but it plays a great role in our life.
Things you may not see in your teenage life, once you enter working field and mix with the society, you will feel it.. my friend.
Again, comparing our parliaments and their parliaments would be very much irrelevant. Judging that they have Two effective houses in every parliament (lower house and upper house) in which the oppositions PLUS the senate play a great role in supervising the goverment. Therefore, good bills can be passed. Where as here? Bills are not even scrutinized throughly and with the coaltion party holding a majority seats, it's definite that whatever bills they bring in will be approved initialy.
Again, what can we expect the oppositions to do when DUN sitting is held twice a year, about two weeks?
If you are to look through the schedule. Each elected representative has a limited time for the debate and speech. 5 days a week, starts from 9am - 6pm with many hours of break in btw.
Let's say 6 hours perday, 5 days 30 hours. Two weeks 60 hours. Give extra, 80 hours la..
Swk DUN has about 70+ elected representatives. Debating the new bills already take days. What more to proceed with the "Committee of the Whole Stage" or rather informal debates when each minister is questioned and has to reply.
Giving each elected representatives 30 mins each is abosultely insufficient!! I could have crap 30 mins, what more for them to touch on many areas regarding the state!
This is why we should have more oppositions. Making the parliament more balance to enable bills being scrutinized and only good bills are passed.
One thing, 20000 families may seem little to you, but mind you..
It is very wrong to neglect the 20000 people for a betterment of the majority (yea right! majority!) You may live in a good life, with good house... without worrying your three meals, but do you know the 20000 families are working hard to survive? Have you been there before and see how they live through their life?
They are part of the rakyat and the elected representatives should concern about them.
Of course, helping this 20000 famalies have a good perpetuating result. Imagine this 20k families receive proper aid to survive plus education. They will have better standard of living in the future. Creating greater aggregate demand to the country. This will lead to higher production level (Supply) and hence greater economic growth. (Need detail explanation? find me!)
20k families might seem little, but 20k families expenditure is enough to expand an economy in oustation to a boom, generating higher incomes to everyone and hence better standard of living.
NEP has been questioned over and over again, suggestion has been put forward to replace NEP but what could have been done with the coalition party holding a majority? They keep insisting the bumis have never enough receive support and protection.
It's like how the developing nations argue on the protection against free trade in globalisation world. Infant industris has never enough receiv protection. Lead to later overdependent.
Our media is already playing a weak role as a watchdogs, what would happen if the oppositions aren't doing its role in this matter?
Rating? I don't see the chance of any application here in our country. You and I understand why...
Danny, I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that our media here sucks. And it further reinforces my point that the political ethos in Malaysia is as yet still terribly immature, and we as voters aren't given enough credible alternatives to the Government.
How do you expect us to place our trust in an opposition that is forced to nitpick on small issues, who make outrageous statements in Parliament, and who publish newsletters that asks ministers to resign every two pages? No offense, Kenny, but all of us as a society have a long way to go.
Kenny: I was never arguing from a practicality point of view. My argument was to show that we don't have good choices when it comes to voting in Malaysia.
This quote perhaps sums up everything I have to say on the issue, in one sentence:
"Many people are disillusioned with the political process because they find the alternatives are really not an alternative at all. In an authoritarian climate, the process simply mutates and each political party appears as a reflection of the other ..."
(taken from an interview with Kua Kia Soong, dated June 2005).
In which case I've had my say, and my arguments on the media/opposition's roles was to demonstrate the inadequacies of our political system.
***
I would advise you on the way you frame your arguments, Kenny. Talking down to a peer (or anyone you're arguing with, really) is not a good thing to do, and comments on the inadequacy of your opponent do not reflect well on you. Keep to ideological clash, and stave off the personal attacks, please. It's distracting when I'm typing out a reply.
From a philosophical point of view I do like your argument for the 20,000 families. It reminds me of some critics of Aristotle, who decried democracy as a faulty form of governance ... they branded the system ochlocracy. They have a very valid point: if a majority is allowed to vote and dictate rule, a minority will surely be discriminated against.
As a counter argument I would say time in DUN would be better spent on topics with bigger impact, rather than arguing about uniforms. It's a no-brainer, really - you say there are only 2 DUN sittings (which I didn't know, before) then wouldn't the time be better spent arguing on matters that seem relevant to the rakyat who vote for you? Is arguing for uniforms really the best way to use the trust vested in you by the people?
I don't need to answer that question. I don't believe I need to.
I quite enjoyed the practicality aspects of your argument. It's a good wake up call for an idealist, such as myself, to see that we've quite a long way to go before we achieve the political maturity Wawasan 2020 described as one of its tenets.
For that I thank you.
Only the voters can change the gov.....unfortunately Msian is way too divided already along the racial lines.(thx to the historical semi-mistake of UMNO-MCA-MIC) We only care for ourselves, our own community for our own benefit. All of us are self-centred.
As long as the politic is divided through racial lines (aka BN) and we ourselves does not change our mentality, Msian will remain as it is, stability through unholy alliance.
If that's what you believe and what you think, I've nothing to say.
If you find that my arguments are very distracting, I've nothing to say.
I admit, I don't write well... Don't expect me to write any essay or any arguments as my thoughts come well before I'm able to put them well into writing.
I'm just trying to explain to you over minor issues, it's just how sad if you emphasize on the majority, forgoing the minority.
Afterall, that's what NEP supposed to mean.
Debating on the uniforms is JUST PART Of the arguments. Mind you, the newspapers printed 1/10 about uniforms, but the whole 14 day sittings never just talk on the uniforms okay? Perhaps, might be oni few hours. The newspapers were basicaly exaggerating.
Uniforms is part of crucial thing that illustrate the UNNECESSARY expenditure.
DUN sitting is held twice a year, then why is there a need to spend hundreds of millions ringgits building a second and new DUN building, making the former one as a historical building (you as economists, this historical building is a waste of money - not productive in the sense of human capital investment).
Again, telling them to talk on the right things? Oh wait, it's good if you can follow me this year end and watch the DUN sitting by yourself. Then you tell me who is actually debating the right things!
Two times sitting should instead be prolonged or extended.
We do not merely discredit the opponents. However, they are the government, they are the leading coalition party with the most power in the nation. If we do not watch over them, correct their mistakes and suggest a resolution, who else go gotta do? I do wonder what kind of future it is having a one party parliament.
It's so unlike that there is no right alternatives. It's just that the people have given too much power to the coaltion, preventing the growth and expansion of oppositions.
Applying the very good rule, "IF there is a fierce competition, there is an improvement."
Looking how our national car manufacturers are doing, how sad it is... Overly protected, less competition... and in the end?
I don't really wish to argue, but the fact that I really want to clarify a few of your wrong perceptions.
We can't never be compared with our counterparts like UK and so the rest... in fact, what makes us compareable? Saying we are putting them as role model, I do wonder we ever apply them.
Anyway, I don't really want to talk further regarding politics online. If there is time, I wish to talk to you face to face.
I will outline to you why it's not applicable for the oppositions to do like how oppositions in most developed countries are doing.
It's always be best for us to understand our nation's situation and condition first before we compare with other nations and tell what the both parties should be doing.
The main objective of the oppositions currently is of course helping to eliminate corruptions. Unnecessary expenditure should be prevented because it's a way that helps corruptions. Only through the a transparent government and nation, our nation will achieve prosper economic growth. It's sad to see the ranking of Msia in the International Corruption Perception Index.
Oh yea, if you do have time, try read through the opposition websites and find out their policies. They do have one each. The parliament debate is never like what the newspapers are writing.
Cedric, you need to read a lot from various sources. you cannot only read from Borneo Post(owned by SUPP) about the DUN sitting and make a judgment that the opposition argue/protest the uniform throughout the session! Perhaps you can try to go to DUN and observe how the debates like..The next DUN sitting will be on November 19, if i'm not mistaken.. You can sit on the public gallery and watch them debate..
BTW, i gonna blog more about the opposition in my next post!
Danny, Kenny, I would very much like to sit in the public gallery. Shall we go together? =)
Danny: The only reason I read the Borneo Post is to remind myself how bad local journalism can be. Actually you do remind me that I haven't read the newspapers in quite awhile - I've been too busy with the Form 6 syllabus. I read The Edge, Off The Edge, and very occasionally The Star.
I find the assumption that I read the Borneo Post quite amusing ... no really. The quality of the English there can sometimes be very funny!
Ironically enough I read The Rocket ... DAP's private newsletter. Every time I read it I come off feeling upset about the state of the nation, and wanting to leave as soon as possible.
I think I'll stop reading The Rocket. It's not good for my mental health.
Kenny, I don't find your arguments distracting ... I find the personal attacks you insert within your arguments insulting, as well as distracting. It's very hard to maintain a civil discussion if you insert:
'...you probably has a very marginal knowledge about what's going on in politics ... of course, with our coalition-dominated-newspapers, you probably don't know what's going on.'
This assumes that 1, I read coalition newspapers, 2, my opinions are to be discredited because I read coalition newspapers 3, your opinions do matter because you know what is going on in politics.
Another example: 'You have to study history my dear friends'
Which implies we don't study history closely enough, and you do.
Yet another example: 'If you study economics...'
Which implies that those who don't study economics wouldn't know what you're talking about.
Kenny, I know you probably don't intend it, but your tone in the writing brings across a feeling of superiority, that you should be the only one talking, and any one else who disagrees with you don't know what they're talking about. I'm sure this is not the case, seeing as I've known you for 5 years - but be careful how you word your arguments!
You'll be a lawyer soon. What you don't say is as important as what you say! And don't say that you're not good at writing ... with work, you will be!
I quite enjoyed this debate, really. Shall we go to the next DUN sitting, sometime?
Lolx. I've forseen that you would say something I'm going to be a lawyer and it's important for me to phrase my statements and arguments.
At that point of time, I was really going to write, "Ced, you know you're talented in writing. I would really encourage you to venture into journalism. It would be very useful to the society to have a write who can write and anaylse well... Venturing into other fields like engineering and such would be a waste..."
Lolx!
Nah... I mean, I don't write well online... -_-" Go read my legal essays la... hahaha! I'm so lazy to write and phrase well, brainstorm. So whatever things that come to my mind, I just write. And so, the way you phrase your paragraphs and write out the things really DO MAKE yourself know nothing at all... -_-"
I don't mean DAP newsletter aren't good, at some point... I disagree with the things there *I never read most of the time*. But, things about society is something we have to concern about.
Oh yea, another thing... Being a lawyer isn't very much of what I want to be in future anyway. I don't really plan to 'specialised' in lawyer nor join politics... I want to do business and investment :D
Kau nak berpolitik guna Bahasa Asing ? Dalam dunia ape kau ni ? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. Lawak betol la kau ni...
Aku boleh jelaskan kesemua isu2 kau la...Alasan yg kau guna tu semua macam alasan budak kecik tak nak pergi sekolah. Silakan kita berdebat. Kita lihat ilmu politik siapa lebih hebat. Umur aku masih muda. Kita lihat siapa yg kaku berkata2 nanti.
maju_bn_2020@yahoo.com.my
Siapa berani nak debat ? Kenny Voon ? Bapak dia ? Kau ? Aldrin ? Tay? Cedric ? Kau sebut je......
Berani debat, berani kalah.
oi haziq. apa kerja datang sitok molah kacau?
Kalau kita takda angkasawan 2020 nanti, korang pulak yg cakap negara kita bodoh belum ada angkasawan. Tapi bila kita dah ada angkasawan, kau cakap tak sesuai pulak.
Buat pengetahuan kau bawah 10 peratus sudah tahap kemiskinan berjaya dibendung. Tak jadi masalah kita nak buat program angkasawan.
SUKHOI ? Perang ? Negara bodoh sahaja yg tak beli peralatan perang. BiLA mALAYSIA tak ada jet canggih, kau cakap malaysia ketinggalan zaman, tapi bila malaysia ada jet canggih, kau cakap buang duit.
Bukak la mata tu besar2. Takkan la kerajaan bodoh sangat nak membazir duit. Video VK Lingam tu, anwar yg bagi bukan ? Sejak 2002 LAGI VIDEO TU ANWAR SIMPAN. TETAPI KENAPA SEKARANG BARU KELUAR ??? KENAPA VK LINGAM SAHAJA YG BERCAKAP ??? KITA TAK BOLEH TUDUH SELURUH BADAN KEHAKIMAN HANYA KERANA SEORANG INDIA BERCAKAP DLM TELEFON ???
INI SEMUA TAKTIK ANWAR !!! ANWAR MEMPERGUNAKAN DAP dan PAS SEBAGAI CATUR POLITIKNYA.
Kalau benarlah badan kehakiman malaysia tidak telus, kenapa anwar dibebaskan ? Yg anehnya, sewaktu dibebaskan beliau sempat puji mahkamah dan Pak Lah lagi.
"Kau nak berpolitik guna Bahasa Asing ?"
sik da politik politik pun. ramah mesra cakap jak sidak.
"Dalam dunia ape kau ni ? "
Dunia benarla..("Lawak betol la kau ni..."=P)
Ok cut that out. This is hilarious lol- looks like I'll get some fun here ich denke^^. WOOHOO! someone wants to debate heheh...see no evil, hear no evil, be the evil.
Ya, worst quote ever.
Anyway, Ced and Kenny, I take this opportunity to give you guys some revision on debating skills. I know you probably know as much or more than me, but you'll soon have ABSOLUTE UNDERSTANDING on why I choose to do this at the wrong time, the wrong place. Debating is simple.
First, NEVER MAKE MEGA FLYING STATEMENTS.
for example, when you, Ced, argue with Kenny about blablabla...I, as an onlooker, will not try to understand what's going on- and failing to do so, make assumptions like:
"Alasan yg kau guna tu semua macam alasan budak kecik tak nak pergi sekolah. "
Even if you do attempt to take into avoidable foolishness, try not to almost deliberately make it sound lame, OR phrase it as though you were a small kid who didn't want to go to school =O.
Note that I had irrefutable evidence before I concluded the nature of "Alasan yg kau guna tu semua macam alasan budak kecik tak nak pergi sekolah" with astounding accuracy.
Next, I would advise you to choose your battles. Remember, a debate is suppose to be a clash of intellect. Debating well is elitism.
The absent often mistake debate for a way of parading ego- defeating the entire purpose merely to satisfy egoistic craving. A statement like: "Kita lihat ilmu politik siapa lebih hebat" does not show concern about the real issues, but of one's knowledge of the issue. So it is not worthwhile to be called to debate with an already flunked purpose, despite striking maturity.
Also, while debating, to prove your point you'd need substantial arguments.
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT litter 90% of your argument with brave words that pose no meaning. For example:
"Kita lihat siapa yg kaku berkata2 nanti."
"Siapa berani nak debat ? Kenny Voon ? Bapak dia ? Kau ? Aldrin ? Tay? Cedric ? Kau sebut je......"
"Berani debat, berani kalah."
"Silakan kita berdebat. Kita lihat ilmu politik siapa lebih hebat. "
I would like to remind you that brave words... without actual substance would give the impression that one is on the dimmer side of the IQ scale.
Do not argue with fools. From afar, you cannot differentiate who is who.
Another thing.
When delivering your arguments, NEVER challenge those that are not involved in debate at the time. Your purpose should be to engage only with those that are actually debating, so that you'd lessen the risk of being intellectually, spiritually and evilish-ly overpowered.
Debate maybe about going against another view ...but it is intelligent to avoid pulling in more opponents AND by the simplest sense- to leave their alliances alone. If you fail to do so, evil alliances would smellthe fun somewhere and they'd not want to be left out. An example of that very blunder one must avoid:
"Siapa berani nak debat ? Kenny Voon ? Bapak dia ? Kau ? Aldrin ? Tay? Cedric ? Kau sebut je......"
KEEP THEM OUT OF THE PARTY. DO NOT ALLOW AN OPPONENT TO GAIN OFFENSIVE ADVANTAGE.
If that is impossible, however, at least do a background check on the caliber of those you risk challenging. Ensure that you are by no means challenging those are not considered NOOB.
And please, be wary of busybodies that decide it would be convenient to drop by and teach their friends something everybody knows, saying that they're around to poke fun.
To conlude my sagacious appearance, I just wanna say HAHAHAHIHIHIHHIHUHUHU! WOOHOO!!!
Solilah, saya teramatlah gembira hari ini. Sesungguhnya kebahagiaan saya pada hari ini akan menjelma menjadi kesorakkanmu hari besok.
Alasan yang kamu kemukakan untuk tuduhan2 kamu terhadap kerajaan macam alasan2 yg pihak DAP guna. Pihak PAS dan PKR guna. Kamu tak ada alasan sendirikah ?
Kita boleh lihat kawasan tadbiran PAS, DAP dan PKR. Ada pembangunan ? PEMBANGKANG YANG AMBIL DUIT RAKYAT SEBENARNYA. Terengganu yang dimenangi oleh BN menyaksikan pelbagai jenis pembangunan berbanding pemerintahan PAS yang masjid pun susah sangat nak bina. Sudah terbukti pihak pembangkang sememangnya memperbodohkan rakyat.
Ambil isu babi di Melaka. Babi pun nak dipolitikkan oleh DAP dan PKR sedangkang isu tersebut isu alam sekitar !!! Memang benarlah DAP dan PKR sayangkan saudara sebabi mereka.
Kalau benar rakyat Cina sokong pembangkang kenapa PULAU PINANG YANG MAJORITI CINA dikuasai BN-Gerakan ? Kenapa DAP tak boleh menang ? Kalau kau cakap SPR tipu kenapa kerajaan tak dapat merampas kelantan pada pru 2004 ? Sedangkan satu kerusi sahaja yang membezakan keputusannya. Kalau benar SPR menipu da kerajaan bersubahat, mengapa jentera BN bersusah payah berkempen sehingga sanggup masuk hutan berkempen dengan org asli ?
Pihak pembangkang kuat mengata sahaja, nak tolongnya tidak. Sejak kebangkitan Anwar dan reformasi, DAP dan PKR sering sahaja mengikut telunjuk anwar. Anwar minta kerusi semua bagi. Teruk BA diperkudakan oleh anwar.
Ibarat sudah terlalu hilir malam, apa hendak dikata lagi.
Oi Haziq. Ibuh bodoh bah. Apa datang molah kacau? Best gilak kah cari gaduh? Nak kau dah janji sik mok kacau gik?
Aku madah kat kau lah. Tok bukannya benar kah apa. Tok blog jak la woi?!
Just ignore him.
But I want some fun =P. Btw… I haven't sparred for at least 4 months. He thinks in weird ways... like:"Alasan yang kamu kemukakan untuk tuduhan2 kamu terhadap kerajaan "
aiyo...u tuduh me tuduh the kerajaan arr? =P What did I tuduh^^?
-----
"Alasan yang kamu kemukakan untuk tuduhan2 kamu terhadap kerajaan macam alasan2 yg pihak DAP guna. Pihak PAS dan PKR guna. Kamu tak ada alasan sendirikah ?"
macam PAS? Aiyo...saya tak mahu menjadi PAS =(
"Kamu tak ada alasan sendirikah ?"
takda beri apa apa alasan pun=)
"DAP dan PKR sayangkan saudara sebabi mereka."
Yalah..mereka semua babi horr. Tapi BN adalah gajah yang mulia dan berilmu =D
"Kalau benar rakyat Cina sokong pembangkang kenapa PULAU PINANG YANG MAJORITI CINA dikuasai BN-Gerakan ? "
rakyat cina sokong pembangkang? tapi pembangkang tak sokong kerajaan =(. jadi mereka babi yang disayangi oleh DAP dan PKR?^^
"Ambil isu babi di Melaka."
BABI DI MELAKA!?
"Kalau kau cakap SPR tipu kenapa kerajaan tak dapat merampas kelantan pada pru 2004 ? "
Apa SPR? SPR tipu? ^^
"Kalau benar SPR menipu da kerajaan bersubahat, mengapa jentera BN bersusah payah berkempen sehingga sanggup masuk hutan berkempen dengan org asli ?"
-----------------------------------lol...I dont believe in insults (directly ;P) but my answer may be derogatory -although it is FAAARR from such a lowlife implication of BABI UTAN SIMPAN WOOHOO!
Sorry, let me collect myself.
You are misunderstanding the ppl here. They are largely from the debate community.
They want to argue. They have presented an arguments for both sides (although I would admit that it's 2 vs 1- but whocares, Ced deserves that sometimes =P). There is a representation of both sides. No need cry injustice! =P
You can join in the salvo if you like. But let me remind you that this is a place of rationale exchange. We least appreciate you starting to call names like "babi" in reference to those who simply have a different view of things. They are still human beings at that, remember.
In fact, you are branding such a remark on lawyers, doctors, and other scholars. Have you thought of what that would make you? =D
I'm kidding, of course.
"Pihak pembangkang kuat mengata"
Well, you speak strongly too? Would you admit that? A hypocrite does not =).
---------
*bleep* *bleep*...undergoing covenant punishment huhuhu
I have quite a few ways to respond to you, Haziq (I hope I get the name right.)
1, I can laugh as Paul continues to pull off a complete coup - humiliating and making a mockery of you and your arguments. BTW Paul, you're doing a stellar job, and I had a hell of a time laughing at everything you pointed out.
2, I can go UK political blogger mode and lambast you in the most colourful language I have. It isn't particularly colourful when compared to several of my friends, I'm afraid, but the last time I did (I was 16, if I recall) wanker and f***head seeped into my arguments.
3, I can take offense at the derogatory terms you've used to paint many ethnic communities and label you with one of the many racial slurs that already exists in every Malaysian's vocabulary (further proving my point of political immaturity, albeit in an ironic fashion).
4, I can distill through your hogwash and cut to ideological clash.
5, I can abstain.
I shall pick 5. 4 is the choice I usually employ, but I fear ideological clash to be beyond your particular maturity level. I am not being snobbish: I am being honest. I hope you expand upon your viewpoints, and learn to consider opposing views and how they tally to your personal ones. For instance: are you a socialist? A democrat? A technocrat? Do you believe in utilitarianism? What is your view on the 2nd amendment of the United States, the control it represents, and do you feel if this has relevance in a post-Ghandi world? Or have you not considered where you stand on any of these viewpoints? Do you read BN so much you adopt whatever they say to be your own opinion?
I recommend The Wealth Of Nations as a starting read, followed by something from Aristortle, followed by perhaps a dash of Karl Marx, if you dare (I sure as hell don't, yet).
I wish you well, and that you read widely. Thank you.
Maaf kalau saya cetuskan suasana kurang enak di blog ini dan membuat sedikit/banyak kekacauan.
Baik saya akan jawab secara elok. Pertama sekali. Apakah ideologi saya ? Komunis ? Utilitarianisme ? Teknorat ? Sosialis ? Demokrat ?
Jawapan itu saya bagi yang terakhir sekali.
Satu soalan buat anda sekalian. Jikalau Barisan Alternatif (PKR, DAP, PAS) memenangi pilihan raya dan berjaya membentuk sebuah kerajaan. Kemudian PAS menubuhkan dan mencipta sebuah perlembagaan Islam. Hukum dan undang2 Malaysia seratus peratus berpandukan Al-Quran dan As-Sunnah. Awak tak boleh cakap saya bohong sebab itu objektif PAS. Adakah awak akan membangkang atau terus menyokong ?
Adakah DAP dapat meneruskan misi Malaysia Malaysian sedangkan org2 melayu masih degil mempertahankan hak masing2. Adakah kedaulatan Yang Dipertuan Agong dapat dijaga jika DAP memerintah negara ? Adakah DAP akan bersetuju dgn ideologi PAS iaitu menubuhkan sebuah negara ISLAM ?
-Persoalan di atas merupakan persoalan2 org2 Melayu terhadap perjuangan DAP. Org2 Melayu mmg dari dahulu hingga sekarang rapat dgn sultan2 mereka. Adakah DAP berjaya menarik sokongan org2 Melayu ???
Jawapan untuk soalan tadi. Saya lebih menjurus kepada sebuah politik Islam. Tetapi bukan politik PAS. Islam Hadhari untuk semua kaum.Kenapa awak begitu mengagumi Amerika Syarikat ? Apakah yang amerika buat sekarang mematuhi tatasusila kemanusiaan ? Menceroboh negara orang. Mengebom masjid di Iraq. Menghina agama Islam di Iraq. Awak sokong ?
Bagus English yg awak guna. Nampak sangat kematangan bahasa awak.
Adakah saya bersetuju dgn setiap pendapat Barisan Nasional dan jadikan ia pendapat saya ? Ya. Mmg betul. Saya nampak logiknya. DAP memang dapat menarik sokongan org2 Cina memandangkan pemimpin berstatus seorang Cina. Tetapi kenapa tidak semua Cina sokong DAP. Sebaliknya majoriti menyokong MCA. Saya harap awak dapat menjawab kemusykilan yang telah lama bersarang di pemikiran saya buat sekian lama. Apa sebenarnya yang dihendakkan oleh kaum Cina ? Adakah benar kaum Cina atau kaum bukan islam tidak suka dgn pendekatan Islamik BARISAN NASIONAL ? Tetapi bukankah PAS parti Islamik juga ?
Adakah benar KAUM CINA TERMASUK KAMU TIDAK SUKA INSTITUSI DIRAJA MELAYU ?
Lim Kit Siang pernah berkata langkah mayat dia dahulu sebelum menubuhkan negara Islam. tetapi bukankah PAS yang hendak menubuhkan negara islam ???? Adakah DAP dan PKR berbaik2 cuma di pandangan mata kita, tetapi sebenarnya mereka bermusuh ???
Saya betul2 harap perbincangan kita dapat pergi lebih jauh dan saya sekali lagi meminta maaf atas ketidaksopanan saya 'mengkomen' secara melampau.
Kalau jawab isu agong atau sensitif tolong jawab baik2, takut ada yang kena tangkap atas tuduhan menghina agong dan membangkitkan isu2 sensitif.
Wallah. Walillah. Watallah.
Kalaulah engkau ini seorang demokrat, jadi, dengarlah suara minoriti!
Engkau kata tak semua org cina sokong DAP, ya betul, tapi hakikatnya, MCA kalah di kebanyakan kerusi di mana lebih daripada 70% pengundinya adalah orang cina!
Bagi soalan awak yg pertama, sekiranya BA memenangi PRU, PAS akan membentuk sebuah negara Islam. Saya nak tegaskan, DAP bukan lagi di BA. DAP akan bertanding di 55-60 kerusi parlimen, PKR 60+- kerusi, PAS 60+- kerusi!
PAS hanya bertanding 1/3 dari kesemua bilangan kerusi parlimen, jadi, tak mungkin PAS dpt membentuk sebuah negara Islam di malaysia! Malahan, saya pasti pemimpin bukan islam dari PKR juga akan membantah rancangan tersebut!
Sekiranya nak membandingkan PAS dengan UMNO, PAS adalah lebih baik berbanding UMNO!
Saya tak pernah dengar pemimpin PAS mengancam nak bunuh orang cina, khususnya. Orang PAS tak guna keris nak bunuh org cina, tak ancam nak ulang 13/5. Tapi UMNO??
Adalah tidak benar nak cakap orang cina tak suka institusi diraja!
Whereas, the monarchy system and sultan play a great role in upholding the constitution and defending the rights of the people if the gov. do something wrong.
Raja Dr. Nazrin Shah, Sultan Selangor, Sultan Perak, Sultan Pahang are those royalties who are 'berjiwa rakyat' and often spoke on national unity! They, undoubtedly, are great people and should be respected!
There is no point of abolishing the monarchy system and converting the country into republic!
Good!
You're starting to make sense, and not throwing about rough, general accusations. Mature ideological clash might just be possible. =)
I'll reply as soon as I can - right now I have limited online time.
PS: I like what you brought up about the chinese not liking the Malay sultanate: and I have to say ... bollocks. Me, my friends, and in general the Chinese community I know have no problem with the Malay sultanate.
In fact, I've remembered numerous times comments made by royalty calling for fairplay and transparency made us smile. Personally I'm very proud of them, and I wish more Malay politicians will follow their example.
PS: Oops, didn't read Danny's comments on royalty. Yeah, I just repeated what he said. The Rajas are brilliant.
Most honourable Haziq
You made a horrible mistake.
The question now, is not about justifying your ideology. It doesn't matter whether it is anarchism, or animism. In fact, mine is Theocracy =P...I believe in one sole, ruthless dictator. But I'm not going to preach about utopia.
Have you noticed?
No matter how many points you broach, or cough up- you have lost.
You lost when you made 3 bad choices.
The First was to argue.
The Second was to defend your argument.
The Third was to present your argument in UGS of all places.
*evil scoff*
Heh, Excuse me, please.
The approach you took to argument was what made audiences shun you.
An aggressive, irrational approach- forcefully trying to shove your sense of ideology (no matter what it is) in the form of harangues down our throats- that's what made us beg to oppose.
Cedric, I believe, was pro-government. As of now, however, instead of pulling him over to your side- he is lost forever (nah =P).
Also, notice that our offense is focused at you, not your ideology nor the government nor the opposition that you, so eagerly slandered.
No matter what your argument is now, it is clear that we would not listen not because they dont contain truth; not because you had the wrong intentions. But your style of delivery is just overly awe-inspiring.
You have brought the government low and have done them a great disservice.
Pungalunga hungry, pungalunga eat, pungalunga happy^^
-----------------------------------
NOTE: Don't take it personally Hazdude, I'm just trying to play along and be overly dramatic…haven't done that in a long time you see =D. Don't feel discourage. While what I said is the truth- I don't mean to offend you, so no hard feelings^^
I know you have good intentions Haz, but it just came out the wrong way ya…
Just don’t prove that you're under emotional influence. Base everything on rationale and reason. Of course, dont totally blot it out but it can come later...far far away from the debate.
I can see that you are trying… but in this case, it came too late.
Though I applaud your attempt
<3 pungalunga force
sejak bila umno nak bunuh org cina guna keris ???
Salah ke kalau pemimpin melayu julang keris ??? Kalau mcm tu Agong pun tak boleh julang keris lah ???
kalau mcm tu, kenapa PAS nak bergabung dgn DAP atau PKR sedangkan hasrat PAS untuk menubuhkan negara Islam tiada keizinan. Tetapi itulah yg dianggap PAS.
DAP sepatutnya menarik sokongan org2 bumiputera. PKR bukannya boleh harap. Berapa kerusi saja dlm parlimen. Kenapa DAP atk berani masuk hutan ek ? Maksud saya pergi ke pedalaman hutan Sabah Sarawak dan cuba tarik perhatian masyarakat di sana. Kenapa ? Takut lintah ?
Saya rasa ini mungkin komen saya yg terakhir memandangkan saya mendengar nasihat kwn saya supya tdk menimbulkan kekcohan di persatuan berdaftar ini.
Kita lihat keputusan pilihanraya, siapa yang rakyat benar-benar sokong !!!
Okay, got a little more online time.
First off: the chinese mind. The chinese in Malaysia is divided into 2 groups: G1 and G2. G1 (75%) is the traditional Chinese: they follow Chinese fashion, culture, and they don't give a scheiße about what happens in Malaysian politics, as long as it doesn't affect their businesses.
G2 (15%) is the banana group. They're articulate, issue oriented, and they're very much influenced by western ideology ... like 'democracy'.
The G1, being the majority, supports whatever group gives them the most ideal conditions to run their businesses. They don't care if its DAP or PAS or MCA or BN or whatever political party it is: if they support chinese businesses, the G1 is happy. Their thinking is: you do your thing, we do ours. Don't kaypo (busybody). Heck, if the US invades, the G1 would probably be perfectly happy doing what they do if the US invaders give them enough space to do it.
If the status quo is breached (like the recent pig issue in Melaka) all hell breaks loose. MCA just about lost a gazillion votes right there when it happened. Poor MCA. DAP is laughing right to the ballot box.
Source: this article.
***
On another front: I agree with you on Islam Hadhari. I like the concept, and if Pak Lah can bring about this moderate form of Islam successfully, the world will be a lot better for it.
***
Danny, you better be careful about what you say about PAS. The international community is in fact very happy that PAS isn't in power ... they think PAS is exactly the kind of party that'll support terrorism for religious purposes. But Haziq: look at the alternative! UMNO just about branded Malaysia an Islamic state, in direct violation of our constitution, and then threaten to take action if anybody so much as raised the issue in public.
I am G2 (sadly), and I am issue oriented.
***
From where did you get the impression that I am a fan of America? I recommended aristortle (ancient greek), Marx (Prussian), I commended the British parliament, and I dislike American political lobbying, which gets into things like not joining the Kyoto agreement.
But I do admire the founding fathers and their vision. It is due to them we have intellectual rights, and a free economy, and capitalism.
Name me one Malaysian who has changed the world. And I mean big change, not little things like farting in space. (sorry, had to add that in)
Just because ideas originate from America doesn't make them less credible. Admiration of the country of origin has nothing to do with it.
Hear hear!!=P
Ced, it's useless... he doesn't even bother to read our posts... and accuses us for accusing what we didn't. To the fanatic the whole world is fanactical.
kthxbye
Cedric, PAS will never form an Islamic State in malaysia! As i have said, they contested only 1/3 of the total parliament seats, making them unable to form a government!
So why make a fuss out of it when our country, is in fact an Islamic State, after TDM declared it on 29th sept. 2001?? It is in fact a violation of the constitution! Islamic State ala UMNO, you see what happened?
Close one eye MP, istana zakaria, corruption, abuse of power and everything! These are sins in Islam, and the so-called 'Islam Hadhari' struggled by Pak Lah was a failed agenda!
To the extremist guy:
Do not refer that kampung ppl in Sabah and Swk live in hutan! YOu are just a dumbass for making that statement. Shame! Making the fool out of yourself, and it shows that you are a west malaysian!
Just because PAS has no chance of forming a government doesn't make it alright to support it - warts, holes and all. I haven't seen any of their policies, or the way the party acts, but I'd like it very much if we remove, this instance, the 'any party that is opposition is good' mindset.
It is dangerous.
It's like saying communism has no chance of ever working in our country, so why not introduce a communist party?
Which would be delightful, really.
DAMN! I accidentally deleted one of your comments, Cedric! I was deleting mine!
In my opinion, voting for any opposition party when it comes to election is good, and it doesn't matter which opposition party you are voting!
By voting PAS, for instance, doesn't mean that you support their struggle or objectives! Voting for opposition so that they can provide check and balance, rather than letting the gov. party winning all the seats contested. This will lead to a serious problem for the people.
Just look at what SUPP do these days! After their heavy defeat in Kch, they are now starting to wake up, listening and solving the ppl's grouses! If the ppl doesn't vote in opposition, do you think they will do that?
The Malays should know that the DAP will not be able to abolish the NEP without the support of them, the chinese should know that PAS can't form Islamic State without the support of them!
The gov. can do anything they want, no opposition voices can be heard in parliament, they can increase the petrol price by 100%-400% if they want, then use ISA to detain those who take to the streets to protest! Can you imagine this?
All these things will happen if there are ppl with mentality like you who will vote for them!
'It's like saying communism has no chance of ever working in our country, so why not introduce a communist party?'
This statement is totally out of the argument! Do not compare communist party with democratic party! These two types of parties are different!
Yes, Islam Hadhari is a failed agenda! Look at what happened to our country! Corruption happening everywhere, unfairness, mistreatment, police brutality, abuse of power and so on!
Look at the mentality of the products of Islam Hadhari. Sexist MPs with 'bocor' argument,'taiwan parliament fighting style at State Assembly', killing of the pigs which also destroyed the rice bowl of the farmers, just to name a few!
I don't care whether it is Islam Hadhari, Shiite, Sunni, Kurdish, or Islamic State ala PAS,they all totally violate the constitution! Malaysia should remain as a secular country!
And Cedric, why do you still support the gov. when all these stupid things, corruption, abuse of power and declaration by DPM and PM that Malaysia is indeed a Islamic State? Najib once said malaysia never been a secular state, malaysia is a Islamic State. Then PM said malaysia is a theocratic Islamic state!
If you are against Islamic State PAS style, the UMNO style was also the same!
You tell me, who in this world would want to be treated as a second or third class citizen? Who in this world would want to be called 'unpatriotic' despite paying taxes and obeying the laws? That is what i post in Lowyat, the chinese and indians are so stupid, they voted the gov. party so that they will be marginalised!
Look at UMNO general assembly in 2006! All sorts of racist statements was made by the delegates! Though i don't support PAS, but i never heard them threatening non-malays or non-muslims! They even says that pig is not a problem to them!
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/75309
Cedric, one more thing i want to tell you. Do you know recently that there are a few UMNO MPs asking for the Edu. Min. to remove christian cross in mission schools? This is too much! I can't tolerate on this anymore, as these racist politicians are useless!
I forgot which blog/website i read yesterday that reported about these statements by them in Parliament, but malaysiakini reported this after the suggestion by those stupid MPs of your 'supported party'.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/75601
Updates: Just found the blog's link.
http://www.darnmalaysia.com/2007/11/23/morons-of-parliament-demolish-christian-statues-destroy-the-crosses/
http://lucialai.org/2007/11/22/demolish-the-statues-and-destroy-the-crosses/
http://lucialai.org/2007/11/24/demolish-the-statues-and-destroy-the-crosses-part-ii/
http://www.malaysia-today.net/nuc2006/letter.php?itemid=795
I stand by my former statement that supporting ALL opposition parties regardless of their ideals is dangerous.
I also stand by my former statement (in the comment you accidently deleted - no worries, btw) that "sexist MPs with 'bocor' argument,'taiwan parliament fighting style at State Assembly', killing of the pigs which also destroyed the rice bowl of the farmers", are NOT the product of Islam Hadhari. It is the product of OUR current political mindset, not a moderate version of Islam it is trying to promote.
As I said earlier, just because John farted and the goat died at the same time doesn't mean John killed the goat.
A causality argument.
It may seem like I'm supporting the government. But really, must we all fall into such broad categories? Must we all be pro gov, or anti gov?
I am pro gov when they do the right thing. I applaud them and speak out when they're doing a good job (in the issue concerned lah). The gov isn't all bad, you know. There's still light in there.
I am pro opposition when they do the right thing. I applaud them and speak out when they're doing a good job (in the issue concerned lah). The oppo isn't all good, you know. They're no better nor worse than the gov, and if you think you are just wait till they get in power.
Abraham Lincoln once said: to truly test a man, hand him power.
The opposition, in this case, have not been truly tested. So I do not regard them as better nor worse than the ruling coalition.
All's fair in love and war.
PS: that communist example was an EXAMPLE. An analogy! Nothing more! *argue the point lah, not the example*
PPS: As for the christian crosses in mission schools: I am wholely anti government and by your side on that issue.
Rawr.
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